Comments on: Can’t we all just get along? http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/ on emerging platforms, the open source business opportunity, and the commoditization of software Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:13:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.2 By: attic » Blog Archive » Kāpēc Debian nav sajūsmā par Ubuntu? http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-2157 attic » Blog Archive » Kāpēc Debian nav sajūsmā par Ubuntu? Fri, 18 May 2007 16:59:27 +0000 http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-2157 [...] Can’t we all just get along? [...] […] Can’t we all just get along? […]

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]]> By: Lars-Schenk.com » Blog Archiv » Spannungen zwischen Debian und Ubuntu http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-952 Lars-Schenk.com » Blog Archiv » Spannungen zwischen Debian und Ubuntu Fri, 27 Oct 2006 00:09:29 +0000 http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-952 [...] Bereits im Frühjahr 2005 hat Debian’s geistiger Vater Ian Murdock in seinem Blog angemahnt dass Paketsystem von Debian und seinen Töchtern kompatibel zu halten, damit es nicht zu einem Fork kommt und man die gleichen Probleme wie bei RPM basierten Distributionen bekommt. Ian’s Ubuntu vs. Debian Betrachtungen gewinnen heute unter dem zunehmenden Erfolg von Ubuntu mMn. immer mehr Bedeutung. Seine Mahnung “we all win if and only if Ubuntu remains a good son” scheint aber von Mark Shuttleworth ungehört zu bleiben. Heute.de berichtete jüngst über “das beste Linux, das es je gab” und meint damit das für den Dezember angekündigte Debian GNU/Linux 4 mit dem Codenamen “Etch”. Martin “Joey” Schulze gibt im Inverview die Bedenken vieler Debian-Entwickler wieder: “Normalerweise freuen wir uns, wenn sich andere Projekte Debian als Basis aussuchen”, erläutert Schulze. “Ein bisschen anders” sei das bei Ubuntu, der Linux-Distribution, die Mark Shuttleworth gegründet hat, südafrikanischer Millionär und erster Weltraumtourist. Ubuntus Popularität gehe mehr und mehr auf Debians Kosten: “Seine Firma hat Debian-Entwickler eingestellt und zieht einiges an Entwicklungszeit und Anwenderschaft von Debian ab.” [...] […] Bereits im Frühjahr 2005 hat Debian’s geistiger Vater Ian Murdock in seinem Blog angemahnt dass Paketsystem von Debian und seinen Töchtern kompatibel zu halten, damit es nicht zu einem Fork kommt und man die gleichen Probleme wie bei RPM basierten Distributionen bekommt. Ian’s Ubuntu vs. Debian Betrachtungen gewinnen heute unter dem zunehmenden Erfolg von Ubuntu mMn. immer mehr Bedeutung. Seine Mahnung “we all win if and only if Ubuntu remains a good son” scheint aber von Mark Shuttleworth ungehört zu bleiben. Heute.de berichtete jüngst über “das beste Linux, das es je gab” und meint damit das für den Dezember angekündigte Debian GNU/Linux 4 mit dem Codenamen “Etch”. Martin “Joey” Schulze gibt im Inverview die Bedenken vieler Debian-Entwickler wieder: “Normalerweise freuen wir uns, wenn sich andere Projekte Debian als Basis aussuchen”, erläutert Schulze. “Ein bisschen anders” sei das bei Ubuntu, der Linux-Distribution, die Mark Shuttleworth gegründet hat, südafrikanischer Millionär und erster Weltraumtourist. Ubuntus Popularität gehe mehr und mehr auf Debians Kosten: “Seine Firma hat Debian-Entwickler eingestellt und zieht einiges an Entwicklungszeit und Anwenderschaft von Debian ab.” […]

]]> By: Glanz http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-108 Glanz Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-108 I agree that a compatibility runtime is one solution, but you forget one important thing. Debian Legal would go bonkers over that. Debian is regressing and improving simultaneously. Regressing because of the integrist attitude of its honchos who have become nearly fanatical in their blind purism, and improving because of dedicated and extremely competent developers. One major difference between Debian and Ubuntu is that Debian users' imput is mostly ignored, whereas Ubuntu users are heard and respected. I agree that a compatibility runtime is one solution, but you forget one important thing. Debian Legal would go bonkers over that. Debian is regressing and improving simultaneously. Regressing because of the integrist attitude of its honchos who have become nearly fanatical in their blind purism, and improving because of dedicated and extremely competent developers. One major difference between Debian and Ubuntu is that Debian users’ imput is mostly ignored, whereas Ubuntu users are heard and respected.

]]> By: benlr http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-109 benlr Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-109 It seems to me that Ubuntu is just doing more successfully what Progeny originally tried to do with their linux distribution: provide a version of Debian that is more focused and targeted at end users. Ubuntu is bringing in users who would never previously have used a Debian-based distribution and that gain seems to offset at least some of the concerns about forking. I don't see how having a debian compatible development envrionment (and making that the default) would really work. Wouldn't that mean Ubuntu, a distribution which releases every 6 months, retaining compatibility with sarge for the next 2-4 years or until the next stable release? It seems to me that Ubuntu is just doing more successfully what Progeny originally tried to do with their linux distribution: provide a version of Debian that is more focused and targeted at end users.

Ubuntu is bringing in users who would never previously have used a Debian-based distribution and that gain seems to offset at least some of the concerns about forking.

I don’t see how having a debian compatible development envrionment (and making that the default) would really work. Wouldn’t that mean Ubuntu, a distribution which releases every 6 months, retaining compatibility with sarge for the next 2-4 years or until the next stable release?

]]> By: joe http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-110 joe Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-110 internetnews.com, Sarge vs. The Hoary Hedgehog?: "I understand what the Ubuntu folks are trying to do, and they're doing lots of good work that will eventually find its way into Debian." Murdoch said. internetnews.com, Sarge vs. The Hoary Hedgehog?:

“I understand what the Ubuntu folks are trying to do, and they’re doing lots of good work that will eventually find its way into Debian.” Murdoch said.

]]> By: Takis http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-111 Takis Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-111 I don't know a single user using Debian Stable on the desktop. And everybody I work with uses GNU/Linux on the desktop. The current situation with Debian is that everybody seems to agree to run either the testing or the unstable branch (as I did for years now). So, the only way to get a decent desktop using Debian is to use the constantly changing Debian Unstable which does not provide a security-fixes. Everybody at Debian should have known, that this couldn't last very long. The desktop projects such as GNOME and KDE are providing all kinds of stuff which should have been there years ago, such as decent automatic mouting of USB-sticks and digital cameras. If you stick with Debian Stable, you'd have to wait for the release _after_ Sarge. So, if Sarge would release this year, that would probable mean you'd be able to use your USB-stick easily on your Debian desktop somewhere around 2009... I don’t know a single user using Debian Stable on the desktop. And everybody I work with uses GNU/Linux on the desktop. The current situation with Debian is that everybody seems to agree to run either the testing or the unstable branch (as I did for years now). So, the only way to get a decent desktop using Debian is to use the constantly changing Debian Unstable which does not provide a security-fixes. Everybody at Debian should have known, that this couldn’t last very long. The desktop projects such as GNOME and KDE are providing all kinds of stuff which should have been there years ago, such as decent automatic mouting of USB-sticks and digital cameras. If you stick with Debian Stable, you’d have to wait for the release _after_ Sarge. So, if Sarge would release this year, that would probable mean you’d be able to use your USB-stick easily on your Debian desktop somewhere around 2009…

]]> By: ssh-anon http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-112 ssh-anon Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-112 Sounds like someone doesn't like loosing control. Where someone see failure another sees opportunity. I predict Ubuntu will become the defacto Debian and Debian will follow Ubuntu's lead. Sounds like someone doesn’t like loosing control. Where someone see failure another sees opportunity. I predict Ubuntu will become the defacto Debian and Debian will follow Ubuntu’s lead.

]]> By: Derek http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-113 Derek Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-113 I don't know a single user using Debian Stable on the desktop. I do. I actually have two. One of them is still running potato (ok, so that one's out of date). I have built a fair number of packages from sarge on woody (not counting the ones that required newer deb tools -- those I just build from source and toss in /opt) I like Debian's stability/consistency and not having to grab 30+ packages the next time libc6 is notched 0.0.0-0.1 I don’t know a single user using Debian Stable on the desktop.

I do. I actually have two. One of them is still running potato (ok, so that one’s out of date). I have built a fair number of packages from sarge on woody (not counting the ones that required newer deb tools — those I just build from source and toss in /opt) I like Debian’s stability/consistency and not having to grab 30+ packages the next time libc6 is notched 0.0.0-0.1

]]> By: Any Mouse http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-114 Any Mouse Wed, 31 Dec 1969 17:00:00 +0000 http://ianmurdock.com/2005/04/11/cant-we-all-just-get-along/#comment-114 I've been a Debian user since '95 when I got fed up with Slackware and RedHat. The learning curve was a bit annoying but dpkg and apt sold me in an instant. That said, maybe Debian has become irrelevant. Maybe the "market" wants what Debian could offer, but because of the zealotry of a few, it's shutting itself out of an oppurtunity. It won't be the first time this has happened in the land of "open source". You could make a similar arguement for what happened with *BSD. Perhaps Debian isn't as fit as Ubuntu; hopefully it will survive. I’ve been a Debian user since ‘95 when I got fed up with Slackware and RedHat. The learning curve was a bit annoying but dpkg and apt sold me in an instant.
That said, maybe Debian has become irrelevant. Maybe the “market” wants what Debian could offer, but because of the zealotry of a few, it’s shutting itself out of an oppurtunity. It won’t be the first time this has happened in the land of “open source”. You could make a similar arguement for what happened with *BSD. Perhaps Debian isn’t as fit as Ubuntu; hopefully it will survive.

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